The hospital first opened its doors in 1904 in Norwich, Connecticut. It was built in an idyllic location chosen for its therapeutic properties overlooking the River Thames.
The Norwich Insane Asylum was built isolated from civilization, which worked to its benefit as it began to grow during its early years sprouting new buildings that accompanied the original construction (see aerial view of the hospital here). These new construction projects included patient wards, staff cottages, laboratories and workshops. All of the structures were interconnected by a large network of underground utility tunnels. These tunnels transported electricity, hot water, and patients to various areas on the grounds. The hospital remained self-sufficient, almost like a small town, with its own power plant, pump house, working farm, kitchen, theater and church.
Over 3,000 patients and 1,000 employees were residents on the asylum grounds in the 1950’s.
Slowly patients began to leave Norwich State Hospital due to deinstitutionalization and it permanently closed its doors in 1996. Since then time has basically stood still on the property with a few exceptions. Currently there is talk about converting the grounds into a theme park, but nothing has been set in stone.
After a long tedious drive we leave the car in a commuter parking lot close to the buildings. Ever the vigilant group of explorers we notice a State Trooper making his rounds and dive into the forest for cover. Luckily we outsmarted the police yet again and after regrouping walk along the Thames River for a few hundred feet. We finally see the abandoned pump house looming in the distance and decide to make this our entryway into the campus.
This site has a reputation for being well guarded, well patrolled, and does not take kindly to trespassers. I am always on edge when exploring across the Atlantic and the numerous “State Property – No Trespassing” signs that litter the grounds did not bode well for my paranoia. Instead of exposing ourselves above ground to security and prying eyes, we decided to take the underground route through the utility tunnels.
Using the tunnels we explored many buildings without ever being forced to go outside. This method of travel was soon confirmed to be the safest. On our first attempt to venture outside we were only a few feet away from a security officer in a black uniform. Fortunately he didn’t look our way and we quickly receded back into the tunnel network. For a while we hid in the abandoned theater so we could look around the campus without being seen.
This encounter with security dampened our spirits and made our visit a whole lot shorter than we would have liked. We made our grande exit through the empty chapel, this allowed us to avoid walking back through the forest. As we were walking back to the commuter lot to pickup our car we noticed the State Trooper had been watching us as we suspiciously walked down the road. I wonder where we went to and were coming back from?!
Archive document introducing a new therapy (click to enlarge):
Special thanks to Dr. Bob for sharing the old postcards.
what's going on just got back from nsh
Well, thats a pretty nice compliment, thenkewverrimutch!
Slyv- glad our humble babblings can provide entertainment across the pond. You ever get back over here, we WILL all get together! I'll even drag my decrept , yet awesome, old ass out for a meet and greet!
I cant access a lot of the sites and pics from work, they have a stinking security filter (even filters out my church, a Congregational denomination! ), so I am sadly unable to enjoy the fruits of your labors, ladies and gentlemen. But I still enjoy reading the exploits of the intrepid U.E. here, and the trials and tribulations of all who grace these hallowed halls, er comment page.
ok coming out about what
Well played Ken, but like Chris said please be carefull with certain entry/mobility details, those collapsed tunnels you saw are a good example of why. I do like your style though, very much...email me if you want phucphace@gmail.com A lot of peeps have been failing hard lately-no surprise when they're trying to just park at the com. lot and wander in off the street! WTF? If anyone reading this is thinking of a first time visit: get prepared before you go, you can't just walk right in, you will almost certainly have close calls with security, and get caught if not careful. There really isn't a nice easy entrance anymore and things change there frequently...I'm not trying to be a dik or scare people off, just be carefull!
The publisha- sorry I didn't get back to you on that, I got up there once and there were a bunch o cops at the little cluster of buildings so we went somewhere else. I have yet to do that place And I'll still message you. It's just been crazy lately...
Sly-V big up's to you for just letting things run their course on your site, I think it's very interesting that when you don't police what people say they get bored of the dumb ish and it just naturally turns into a nice, productive forum. And your English is better than a lot of the people whom it's there native language. I love the sets and write ups you do. Can we keep this forum alive after the wich goes down? We may end up with a couple of quality locations in the next couple a years, I'm crossing my fingers...
JPT your just awesome, that's all there is to it!
Everybody has clicked on the Google ad? Everybody has enjoyed the lag from this 1273 comments page?
Well, well, well.
It is getting interesting here.
Bomb is close from a coming out. Chris is not Chris any more but still bringing a lot. Slyv is alive ~ but busy exploring. Indeed, check his last awesome update here.
Slyv had a hard time publishing his book. Lots of lawyers discussion, what can be published, what cannot, what should be hidden, what not.
Seriously.
Keep it up guys, I love reading you, even more than the Gary, Indiana page.
Best, Slyv
ps: @ chris, do we facebook-know each other? pps: excuse my poor English, but at least I guess I spell right, right?
Cool story..try not to share POE's here..we are well viewed here. Glad you got to check it out..Take enough pictures there? geezzeee
I just want to start by saying this site is great and a good inspiration to all.
I had been planning to spend a few days at nsh for a few weeks now. I have floating days off that allow me to get a 3 day weekend a few times a year and my next one was this weekend. My plan was to be dropped off on rt 2 with my stuff for the weekend and make my way to one of the abandoned houses located in the woods back there that had been forgotten. I was going get up and make my way inside around sunrise in one of the buildings in the back by powerhouse and make my way around through the tunnels to explore as much as possible at sunset I was going to leave and go back to the house and eat dinner hopefully get some sleep and do the same thing the next day and get picked up that night after sunset..... that was the plan
On Thursday I started getting the calls from friends about the "Ghost Hunters Show" the night before and the thought that security would be tighter. I was not worried because my plan entailed going in early in the mourning and anyone looking around would be late at night after the bars close so I decided the trip was still a go. I did get my hands on a copy of the show and watched it, I like most of you was not impressed the made a big deal about a door that moved 3 inches and a yelp of was sounded like a puppy to most of us.... I agree the daytime shooting they did, showed all the broken windows in all the buildings and the tunnels can get a good jet of wind in them at times...... and that was there proof of it being haunted.
Anyway around 9:30pm Friday I was dropped off and made my way through the woods to where the houses are or were, there was a lot of nothing I came to a old trellis and a pickup truck parked behind what looked to me like a trailer home. No lights were on, in front there was a car parked so I made my way up the road. I saw a light on in front of a house and lights on in the house the road forked so I went in the opposite direction the house until I reached the sand pit band that can be seen in the satellite views. I turned north through the woods when I heard a dog barking from the house. it wasn't long before I reached the edge of the field where right in front of me was the lab. I looked around and noticed where I was I could not be seen because I was in camo and black. I stashed my camping gear and started back east along the tree line. The dog had not stopped barking he must smell me because I heard other animals all night. I came to a point in the field where the bush cover from the commuter lot ended and I would be more exposed so I got low and crawled about 100 yards going up the dirt road back into the woods still looking for an empty house. I came to what I believe was another occupied house. I looked around and could not see any other houses when another dog started barking with the first. This one sounded younger though, like it was a puppy a few months ago. I turned back and went back to my gear. I didn't bother crawling this time I just walked along the tree line. I got back to my gear pulled out the video cam and recorded the sound of the 2 dogs barking and the sound showed up clear.
I now needed to find a place to stay for the night my choice was either stay in the hospital or in the tent in the woods. I really was not keen on staying in the hospital because the recent show and people showing up because of it so I moved along the tree line with my stuff to the back. The way it curved I soon came to be directly in the back of the lab when I saw a red light in one of the windows that then went away. a little startled I stopped to look and then it came back on slowly.... and then off slowly. Then on slowly.... I realized it was an airplane warning light from across the river most likely from the Mohan sun building. I recorded it and moved on
I soon came up to Kirkbridge and Galt looking for a place to camp that I would not get disturbed I moved past the power house and the tin shop and the garage all the way past Rav. There was a road that went toward the river so I followed that down and around until it came to a sand pile off to the side so I stopped and looked around I could tell this was a well traveled area and didn’t want to camp there. I went north up the tacks to the train cars and camped inside. I felt safe in there.
I stayed there until around 4:30am and decided after looking at the maps and notes I made I would see if I can find the houses again, maybe I missed them in the woods somehow. They should be at the end of the sand so I followed the road that turned into the sand back into a dirt road. Finally found a private property sign. I came back to the first house I saw the night before. The houses are gone or very hidden now I should have found them.
I turned around and went back down the road and came out by the Rav knowing the building is not connected to the tunnels and figuring the power house and the garage were going to be locked up tight so I looked around the main shop and didn’t see anything that didn’t involve B&E so I looked around the main building, it was starting to get light out and I was frantic to find a way in. I did find an open window I can get in with a little scaling and felt better. Every abandoned building I’ve been in once your inside your safe.
I looked around to see which building I was in and in about 5 minutes I found the theater. I didn’t start taking pictures because I didn’t want to attract attention because the sun was still just coming up.
I only spent 7 hours because disappointingly I found most of the tunnels are now collapsed or bricked up I did leave the main building and went into the stedmen and salmon. When I was in salmon I saw the white minivan of security drive by for the first time. When making my way back into the main building it drove by again. He drove so fast he missed me I guess. I couldn’t make it into the admin building because that tunnel is now collapsed as is the tunnel from salmon to the admin. The tunnels to stedmen and woodward are also collapsed as well as the other side of stedmen going to brigham. The tunnel going to Starbling (unsure of name on map) is collapsed. The tunnel going to Dix is bricked up. Looking out the window the “garage” is torn down. I didn’t want to risk going from building to building from the surface. It was raining and thunderstorms were going on all day so I wasn’t going to camp another night and called in for my extraction. I was glad I did get to visit. I don’t know what Preston plans for the place and Judging from the dumpsters I saw and the noises of work going on early in the morning I am afraid they are going to knock the wonderful buildings down.
Here is a link to the pics I took www.flickr.com
hey sparkles yes pondview is across the street it's the one in the back an to the left also if you stand in front of the building the left hand door can be opened also if you go around to the back there should be one or two door's or windows open have fun BOMB
Ah, but old is such a subjective term! "For a cabbage, I am old, for a mountain, I am young. For a man, I am just right!" Or something like that, Thank you, Remo Williams!(yes, I know it was Joel Gray playing Chuen).
I suppose I was comparing myself to the average apparnet age on the site here. I'll be 51 shortly, so take that for what you will. I would not be comfortable ducking and dodging the security, and if caught? The courts sort of roll their eyes at 20 somethings sneaking around abandoned buildings, seeing them as curious "kids" looking for a thrill, with a little bit of thumbing their nose at the authorities thrown in. When you get my age, they give you more of a "What the hells wrong with you? You KNOW better!' Attitude. I guess the powers that be have a certain expectation of maturity with age. If they saw the Freddy vs Garrador figures sitting on top of my work computer (or the hundreds packed in boxes in my basement) they might just figure NSH *IS* the right place for me!
Okay, so here is what I think about whats going on with Seaside and NSH- If they are looking to tear down/refurbish or whatever, then it becomes a major requirement to recover any and all documentation, no matter how insignificant, from the sites. It will all be swept up and sent to the incinerators, and you never know when a certain mundane transfer slip will become the missing piece of the puzzle. I know a lot has been lost to time, and vandals, but what is left should be "protected", before its gone forever. Knowledge is power, and that information may be the only legacy from the sites when they are razed.
No..but I do have this For you to take a look at
Oops I mean columns, and it's not on the grounds plan, do you guys have the google earth overlay of that?- Kinda cool.
Yep - pondview, and it's one of the most scrapped, repetitive and empty buildings on site. There is an alt. School or something like that over there, Bryan I think it's called- with the collums...
Well well.. I doubt that you meant that me having a flat tire was amusing..I think what you meant was..It was terrible news. I was really pissed off..the seaside trip was the only thing on my mind that day! I was more excited to meet up with two of the regulars to this site that I have grown a friendship with..It sucked. Seaside will not go quickly..I hope. Hopefully You (sparkles) and I can work something out this week to go to Hartford and finish up with Norwich..then thats a lot off of my (our) plate. It sounds stupid..but I am exhausted by the hours of editing etc. I have been doing. Glad to see you throw yourself out there to talk with pretty much anyone who might have a story to contribute. Sadly I called the number to the woman I interviewed and the number is disconnected..I still have notes from talking with her..however they may be deemed ..useless information. You should catch up on some of the things that have been brought to the forum here.. Donna V has contributed quite a bit of material. Bomb is playing nice and JPT admitted he's old. Call me sometime stranger..I would really like to go to Hartford this week..I'm figuring out my end of it over the weekend..I have a lot going on with moving and such.. I may not have internet for a few weeks either..Being that I am moving.
Just pondering about what Slyv could be up to..Anything is possible I suppose..But usually he would Ghost our pages..and leave fun remarks to get the regulars going..he has been distant.. Makes me curious as if he's up to something epic..No twitter updates..no updates via Facebook..sure he's been known to venture off to every location that will make us jealous..Just a simple hello would be good once and a while.
Just a general question in Slyv's direction (and everyone else i guess) When you came out with Forbidden-Places..Obviously UE has it's fair share of media bashing..Were you at all concerned about releasing your set? I have seen your media coverage..and it seems to be on the better not..However mostly all UE related subjects in the U.S are frowned upon. You hit major locations for your book..did it ever cross your mind that someone would have a problem with your project?? ..feel free to express yourself once and a while here..This is your site..after all. haha cheers!!
You guys have been busy little bees today! So I just read through everything you all have posted. Lots to say but don't feel like typing it all. (I have to go shopping) Makemyday- Email me with any info you might want to share?
And one of the buildings across the street is Martin House. I think Publish me is right that another one is named Pond View. Anyways, I'm sure once Paul decides to post again he could tell you the name of every single building on the property. (And he's all mine!)
And wtf? What in the hell are they going to do to Seaside now? Bastards. Publish, looks like we gotta go soon! Still think it's funny about the last time we planned on going. Sitting at Dunkin Donuts when you call to tell me you got a flat. haha. (Sorry but it was a little amusing. Only sucky because I didn't go in that day either. Took lots of outside pics for you however!)
Anyways, gotta find the love of my life and go out. Later
Yeah..It's mostly photographers that think they are the shit..But seriously they are nothing special..more or less the site is a breeding ground for inexperienced explorers to get advice from other arm-chair Google image explorers. I have had my photo sets jacked from some of the users on that site as well..Same thing with the Facebook pages about Norwich..they claim to have taken the photo's themselves..yet I have the originals..Hence why all my photo's for my project are done professionally..with copyright.
Yea, I know the other site you speak of...all to well, haaaa! I'm not very active there but I'll send ya a pm. I already know...and def. be careful on that site.
Probably a terrible subject at the current point in time..however when the fires at Norwich were lit..they did extremely minor damage to the buildings. They are talked about as being a blaze..however I haven't seen much evidence of any huge fire taking place..Norwich is made 90% out of plaster walls and cinder..a fire wouldn't hold much ground around Norwich..there has been no loss of buildings at Norwich..Except the above ground tunnels and random structures that the State took upon itself to dispose of..otherwise..everything is still there..I have yet to look at the map and say..wtf where'd this building go? lol. ..if anything..you find structures that aren't shown on the outdated map provided.
I have wondered and fought about this for a while..I don't know to much about preservation of historical sites and what not..however being that it is listed on the database surely there has to be some kind of procedure for such actions to be in place. The Preston Riverwalk talks about the site as an eye-sore..and a dumping ground.. However look at the Administration buildings architecture and compare that to the Norwich Hall..also listed as a historical buildings on the same site listed. These buildings are said to be literally falling apart around us..Which is a bunch of shit to be honest. Sure ..the soil is terrible and from sitting for years unattended the buildings have reached a critical condition..however it was the neglect of the state which lead the buildings to be in such terrible condition. I heard rumors that they wanted to preserve buildings at first..but that quickly faded as the PRA came into play..now the plans are to simply just move forward and create a lot..whatever happens from there is pointless to even speculate..fact is the buildings in question would be gone.
I think the buildings your talking about DIRECTLY across the street are the staff cottages. They are pretty large buildings..holding a lot of nothing of interest. I think within the history it was just the farm cottages..and then they had expanded to doctors and nurse cottages..One building on that side has lots of kids toys and a massive wall map..which holds no mystery..it was just cool..lol The buildings further back are the older ones..the buildings that are directly across from admin are the newer cottages. They all have names I believe ..but they are pretty much ignored. I think one is called Pond View..being that there is a pond in the loop..I think that is why it was labeled as such. ..another area slightly left not labeled on the maps was the pump house directly on the river. Accidentally explored the building one day and revealed that the fresh water would be tested for P.H levels and then literally blown back up the hill towards the campus. The Pump house also dealt with much of the large Oil tanks and pressure and such..Hazmat suits and equipment is still littered in that building as well.
I have new leads on the fountain of youth..if your interested bud..lol I too have a lot going on..between my project and moving apartments..and the wonderful job hunt that never seems to end. My book keeps me in check..giving me some feeling of purpose lately. -legally you say? ..I just sent a series of E-mails regarding just that. Sounds like a long shot..however after talking with Sparkles I figured it was worth a shot. Even sending the PRA an e-mail. Surely someone can point me in the right direction.
My theory stands strong..The fact is that there is very little to almost nothing published about Norwich in the years of it's operation. The hospital didn't just serve as a mental Health facility..It was one of the PRIME employers for the state of Connecticut. Maybe with word of a historical project they would possibly allow one last documentation of the site..in hopes that the history of the site would some-how be more so documented then just the scattered photo's and the small portion of history left to the state. Believe it or not..with research..you will find that books such as "Forbidden-Places" and artwork related to abandoned sites are actually selling pretty hot right now. Most people actually do find that the art produced by the decay is quite fascinating. ..even Forbidden Places I believe was commented to be a wonderful coffee table book. Maybe with this knowledge someone will open the door.
Well you guys have certainly exposed me to the idea of UE in general. Never really thought of it as a avocation! I do just love discussing the history of these places in so much as what I can contribute with you all. I left Eastern CT in 2000 to come to MD and I get back to visit my parents in Middlesex county on a regular but I haven't been really back into that area except once to drive by my old house and a casino trip or two.
NSH seems to be listed on New London County's list of historic places, how can they truly tear some of these buildings down without some hoops to jump through at least. I hear you guys talking about arson and that some were lost to that so I can see those getting torn down and maybe the newer buildings but the old ones from 1910 shoudn't be going anywhere without a fight if they are still on this list.
en.wikipedia.org
Oh and something else I wanted clarification on and that I noticed from looking at the site map I found here and in other places. There are several similar buildings on the opposite side of RTE 12 as you are going towards Norwich center that I always assumed were part of the NSH campus and I do not see them listed at all on the maps of the location as part of the site. Can any one let me know if they are not part of the campus what they actually are a part of?
Sorry to hear about Seaside, and yeah I put New London but I mean't Waterford. Always loved driving by there, I am pretty sure it was not doing any business when I was working in that area so we were just always driving by.
Yeah, I am too past my prime to go playing ninja and trying to sneak into places! Anything legal, I would be interested if I can find the time, have family and other commitments that keep my play time to a minimum! And I would feel awfully stupid at my age to be in front of a judge explaining I snuck into NSH (or anyplace else) to see the cool buildings before they got pulled down.
So, I will simply live vicariously thru you others, and someday when you too are old and grey, you'll remember back to this site, and ol' JPT, and say "Yeah, I know now what you meant!".
Oh, and I'll also do my humble best to keep the "riff raff " in line!
Urban Exploring sites do have a history of being watched. Security and police investigators alike..They have been known to pose as UE's just to gain access into the workings of said "trespassers" ..most sites unlike this one..Require good tact and almost a "proof" of what your purpose is..Another site I belong to requires users to know one another personally and contribute photo's and such in order to gain access as a "full member" ..sure it's not a sure thing that one or two may sneak by..However you'll never see someone posting details or a map of how they "broke the law"..Sure we're not hurting anyone..I go armed with a camera..If I am stopped or caught on a site..I explain simply that I was taking pictures and didn't contribute to any of the vandalism seen on the site..Some buy it..others don't. Certain sites have different tolerances for the occasional trespasser..Other's that are frequently destroyed by vandals tend to poke a bit harder at your presence on site. Fairfield Hills is a perfect example..I was caught and ticketed 94 dollars. A friend of mine caught a while later armed with all sorts of AV equipment..was given felony trespass. They get fed up.. I take the risks..I understand the risks. However posting on a site like the wonderful Forbidden-Places..is more comfortable for me. The main stream UE sites tend to overlook history and focus more on the photography and the coool story they can attach about blowing off security etc. Forbidden gives me a chance to focus more locally with other people who share an interest in what is simply a building. I wont be a tour guide..I don't promote going to Norwich and honestly rather that most people don't. The internet is full of lies anyways..I could say something fictional like " I explored Atlantis today!" Surely..something that extreme would be overlooked..however Maybe I did in fact.....explore Atlantis. ..What I am saying here is that as much info as they can grab by giving our posts an autopsy..it is nearly useless legally. Explore? me Nooo.
That is pretty shitty Seaside too will bite the dust..In all hopes though, I really hope they do as they did with the Danvers site..nearly copying the architecture of the origional buildings. Otherwise it's sort of a washout for the places history. As much as it seems that the Ct Historical society is ignoring these sites..They truly have taken in a lot from these sites. Maybe not broad-casted..and surely they are't interested in preservation of the sites..but they are however collecting most administrative and property history..I.E pictures and manifests and such. Other things are preserved through these sites as well. While trecking through CVH you'll find some of the furniture that was relocated from NSH..Mostly from admin I would believe..Rocking chairs and a few finely made couches and such were brought over to the site along with a few "crazies" here and there. lol.
And that's senor stickynoots to you bombina! haaaa...
These dipies... There's more than that there... And uncs, Ill just say yes there is...
Ue sites in general are watched, anything with the wich- very much. It's mostly for info on how we get in and around to stop it and things like that, so you really do have to watch what you say and how you say it. That really sux about seaside, losing both of those spots is gonna hurt.
Plan for age-restricted condos is on tap for Waterford site
Waterford - Sold, for $8 million.
The state Department of Public Works announced Thursday it has an agreement to sell the former Seaside Regional Center to Farmington developer Mark S. Steiner, who first sought to purchase the 36-acre site 13 years ago.
"It's been a long and winding road, to quote the Beatles," Steiner said.
The final sale price is $900,000 more than the $7.1 million sum Steiner agreed to pay for the property in December 2006.
Steiner declined to comment on the negotiations or the jump in the state's asking price for the property. He told The Day in December he "would be willing to consider adjusting (the) purchase price offer" based on property assessments.
According to a press release, no purchase and sale agreement has been signed, though the public works department expects to close on the property by May 2011.
Steiner's attorney, Joseph Vitale, said the "negotiations are still ongoing and going well."
"Once the permitting process is complete, then we'll close," Steiner said.
Any agreement reached between the state public works department and Seaside in Waterford LLC, Steiner's company, needs the approval of the Office of Policy and Management Review Board, joint standing committees of the General Assembly that deal with the sale of state property and the state attorney general's office.
The town of Waterford must also receive formal notification of the sale of the land.
Steiner has plans to redevelop the property, a former sanitarium and facility for the developmentally disabled with splendid views of Long Island Sound and buildings by Beaux Arts architect Cass Gilbert.
He plans age-restricted condominiums. In 2003 the Zoning Commission unanimously voted to create a "Seaside Preservation Zoning District" that would allow Steiner's firm to develop the condominiums.
While Steiner said those zoning changes are still in effect, he declined to comment further on any development on site. He said a seawall on the site must be repaired, and he reaffirmed his commitment to public access to the waterfront.
He said he will also consider conducting another traffic study in the neighborhood after the closing.
Steiner first agreed in 2006 to purchase Seaside, which the state had closed down 10 years earlier.
In 2007 a legislative committee voted to oppose the sale, and Gov. M. Jodi Rell announced the state would retain the property, though Steiner maintained he had a contract to purchase it.
An investigation by The Day uncovered a series of e-mails showing that Rell's chief of staff, Lisa Moody, had suggested Seaside be preserved as a "legacy item" for the governor.
Rell announced in December 2009 that the property was again for sale, as part of an attempt to raise revenue.
Steiner objected to the state putting the property on the market, claiming again that he had a valid contract to buy it.
Steiner said Thursday he never initiated any litigation against the state.
According to a press release, Public Works Commissioner Raeanne V. Curtis appointed a five-member committee to conduct a review and interviews on proposals for the property.
Waterford First Selectman Daniel Steward said Thursday he is "pleased something is on the move."
Check the papers- they are selling Seaside.
From reading about Uncasville's sanitarium here..I would be left to assume that the place has "active" buildings as well as abandoned areas as well? Like CVH's little island of Kirkbrides <3 .. I would be interested in checking this place out..CVH's part has already been done on my end (for now) and Undercliff has also been done. Seaside is wrecking my nerves being that when I wanted to go..flat tires plagued my trip down there..soon enough though.. I'm pretty wiped out by all the digging I've been doing on these sites..and trying to keep it all organized is a pain. Originally I wanted to produce 90% photography..now it has made a turn to pages of history and disproving rumors of said sites. Hopefully everything works out to the best it can. (We) have actually made good progress with the State as well..good references and strong members of the state have been more than happy to point us in the right direction..It's a good deal.</p>
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